Posts by D wiltshire

48

If Time were running in reverse would we know it?

by D wiltshire in

if "time" is running backwards i dont see how that we would ever know, perhaps some clever physicist could devise an experiment to find out for sure.. some theoreticians have suggested the reason the arrow of time runs from past to future is tied intimately to the expansion of space.

since einstein special theory of relativity we have come to see that "time", space and speed are all relative.

we now more correctly speak of "space-time" instead of just space.

D wiltshire

Else,

You're over complicating this with too much Star Trek mentality... time is just an abstract idea assigned to the passage of events, nothing more.

I think you have over simplified time. Perhaps you have not heard of Eintein? Time is deffinately not just an abstract idea, it is real and it can be manipulated (slowed, stopped,). You should not make such dogmatic statements with scant understanding of the subject.

Physicist still do not yet comprehend exactly what time is, Einstien started to give us a better picture of what it is, but far from complete. Quantum theory does shed a little more light on it but we are still in the dark. And the String theory promises to perhaps enlighten us even more about the "nature" of time.

On,

Also, "time" as such is rather like Coriolis and centrifugal forces: a fictitious perceptual anomaly of the Riemannian tensor manifold that best describes the geometric nature of our universe, as best we can determine for now.

This can be a very complicated subject, that is very speculative in nature. I think the phrase "best we can determine for now" to be very appropriate. As I mentioned that some have proposed the idea of time running backwards in the "big crunch" which I think Stephen Hawkins seems to favor, I may be wrong but I think he does or did at one time.

The whole concept of time reversal is highly speculative, since we don't yet understand deeply what time really is or what forces cause it.

My interest is though if time is running backwards how would we know? Of coarse this is a specultion. But if it was I don't think we would know.

48

If Time were running in reverse would we know it?

by D wiltshire in

if "time" is running backwards i dont see how that we would ever know, perhaps some clever physicist could devise an experiment to find out for sure.. some theoreticians have suggested the reason the arrow of time runs from past to future is tied intimately to the expansion of space.

since einstein special theory of relativity we have come to see that "time", space and speed are all relative.

we now more correctly speak of "space-time" instead of just space.

D wiltshire

If "time" is running backwards I dont see how that we would ever know, perhaps some clever physicist could devise an experiment to find out for sure.

Some theoreticians have suggested the reason the arrow of time runs from past to future is tied intimately to the expansion of space. Since Einstein special theory of relativity we have come to see that "time", space and speed are all relative. We now more correctly speak of "space-time" instead of just space.

So as the universe continues to expand time runs from past to present. Some have suggested that as the expansion slowly comes to a halt and if there is enough matter in the universe that it would reverse and we would be headed towards the "Big Crunch". At this time some speculate that the arrow of time would be reversed and "time" would go from future to past.

This reversal would mean that light would be going into stars instead of going out, and that thermal dynamics would be reverse as well as every thing else.

Our thoughts would also be reversed which would lead me to conclude that we would not know a reversal of time was in progress. I think that in our minds it would still seem that stars were "giving off light" instead of sucking it in, and that the laws of thermodynamics followed the same order.

Any thoughts?

60

Does God exist outside of Time?

by D wiltshire in

does god exist out side of our dimension of time?.

our view of time has changed over the centuries.

for the longest time,.

D wiltshire

Just a few thoughts about present as in past present and future.

Here's an Einstien quote:

"The distinction between past present and future is only an illusion, even if it is a stuborn one."

Saint Augustine:

"How can the past and future be when the past no longer is and the future is not yet? As for the present, if if it were always present and never moved on to become the past, it would not be time but eternity"

Poety by T S Eliot:

"And the end and the begining were always there

Before the begining and after the end

And all is always now

The problem of understanding what "now" or "present" is very difficult for me to comprehend. For how long does "now" last before it becomes the past. And when does the "future" slip into the the present to become "now". I know it must be all tied up in the speed of light some how. Does "Time" have very small increments that can be divided no further than say 10 to the -43 power seconds? Is time in these small increments what makes allowable the spooky action of subatomic particle that quantum physicist tells us happens?

60

Does God exist outside of Time?

by D wiltshire in

does god exist out side of our dimension of time?.

our view of time has changed over the centuries.

for the longest time,.

D wiltshire

Subjects like this deserve a wide variety of answers. Our WT days would forbid us to even think any different thoughts than handed to us by a bunch of narrow minded bigots(GB).

Thank you all for your contribution.

Many physist do think about the Meta-physical exspecially when we get to quantum, and the anthromorpic principle.

Abbadon,

Nice to hear from you, and yes it has been a while. When I refurr to God yes I think of the Biblical one but I don't want to limit our discussion to what is popular interpetations of this God. Science is also a way we can learn about Him, as Einstein ideas about "time" has lead many to different veiws of time and God. If we are to have a meaningful discussion all ideas should be judged on their own merits. I don't think we can be dogmatic on this subject because there is much we don't know, cautiously speculative perhaps. Even the atheist should be able to participate, as we realize both sides are not on solid ground, scientically.

Intro,

D, another quicky - one way to look at it is that maybe it's not so much that God is outside time, but time is inside God - like a thought is in your mind, but your mind is not so much "outside of thought." (or brain, whatever you like)

You have some interesting shall I say Zen ideas. I think a lot of these ancient ideas may have some truth to them. Quantum theory and a non local universe may even give support to it. Some phyicsist feel that subatomic particles have "mind" and that shared origin(Big bang) makes them have a universal mind(perhaps). Many phyicsist these days sound a bit mystical if you ask me, exspecially when you get into quantum theory.

Could it be that our brains not only gives us cosciousness from electrochemical processes by perhaps more on the quantum level(as observed by experiment on subatomic particles). The things science is finding out about matter is indeed puzzeling and weird to say the least.

60

Does God exist outside of Time?

by D wiltshire in

does god exist out side of our dimension of time?.

our view of time has changed over the centuries.

for the longest time,.

D wiltshire

On,

Have you read Peter Ouspensky's Tertium Organum? Also, perhaps Hermann Weyl's Space Time Matter and Ernst Mach's Contributions to the Analysis of the Sensations ? I've only read parts of them, and it's intriguing how the thoughts of these historical scientists and mathematicians interplay along the same metaphysical lines as your question.

No I have not read those books. Right at this moment I'm reading all or most of Paul Davies books. Currantly I'm reading "About Time" I have Einstein's book "Relativity".

Basically anything that is readable by a non-scientist on the subjects of quantum, physics, time, cosmology and chaos, are books that I find interesting. Trying to understand the concepts takes alot of thought, which I find both enjoyable and hard work.

Very intriguing! I dare say you have more to offer on this?

Yes, but difficult to put in writting. As I find different things of interest to me I try to discuss them on the boards where I find some mutual interest.

60

Does God exist outside of Time?

by D wiltshire in

does god exist out side of our dimension of time?.

our view of time has changed over the centuries.

for the longest time,.

D wiltshire

For further clarifacation:

Newton taught that "Time" was universal, that is that time is the same through out the universe. Einstien theory of relativity however shows that time is not universal. There is no such thing as universal time. Time stops inside the event horizon of black holes. Time stops if you reach the speed of light.

The fact that time is not universal means that throughout the universe time is different, with places time has where time stopped all together. Also the fact that time is indeed a dimension (the 4th). That being the case if God was Omnipresent past present and future would not be separated.

I guess that is about as clear as I can make it. First one has to grasp the idea that time is not universal, it is not an easy idea to understand "intuitively" since only we don't readily see this clearly in the everyday world we experience.

60

Does God exist outside of Time?

by D wiltshire in

does god exist out side of our dimension of time?.

our view of time has changed over the centuries.

for the longest time,.

D wiltshire

Rem,

It is not over your head, just counter intuitive. Just as quantum mechanics is.

60

Does God exist outside of Time?

by D wiltshire in

does god exist out side of our dimension of time?.

our view of time has changed over the centuries.

for the longest time,.

D wiltshire

I would like to thank every one for their different insights. It is fun to consider this subject even if it is just speculative.

Lately I have been reading alot about quantum mechanics, and it seems that sub-atomic particles(or waves) have a means of communication that is instantaneous or takes no-time. This has been proven by experiments done in the 80's and early 90's. These sub-atomic particles seem to be able to travel back in time.Einstien had a hard time accepting Quantum Mechanics and termed it "spokey action at a distance".

As Albert E. has shown by his famous "thought experiments" that time is different for everyone and everything, and that there is no such thing a "simultaneity". Time runs faster the slower you go, time runs slower on the sun than on the earth. In fact time even stops on the "event horizon" of a black hole. That being true then if the creator lives outside the universe he therefore must live outside our dimesion of time. Or if he is everywhere at once then time must not be divided for him by past, present or future, because in side Black Holes time stops, and since time is just another dimension like the 3 other dimensions of space then if he is everywhere at once he would be in all of time (past present and future).

60

Does God exist outside of Time?

by D wiltshire in

does god exist out side of our dimension of time?.

our view of time has changed over the centuries.

for the longest time,.

D wiltshire

Does God exist out side of our dimension of time?
Our view of time has changed over the centuries. For the longest time,. Time and Space were thought of as "givens" that were always just there.
Then along come better and better methods of measuring time, finally Einstein tells us that time is not the same everywhere, and that both space and time can be altered by speed and gravity.
The fact that time slows down as we approach the speed of light has been proven by many experiments and is not in doubt. It has also been proven that gravity slows down time. Thus time can be warped(gravity), slowed or even stopped completely. Time therefore is a thing that can be changed.
Our Universe had a moment of Creation is no longer disputed. The moment of creation is also the moment that both Space and Time had their beginning.
God on the other hand had no beginning he also knows from the beginning the finally.

Here our some questions that can be raised that I would appreciate your comments on.
1) Does God even need time or space to exist?
2) Does he look at time the same way we do?
3) Does he view past, present, and future as all the same?
I answer these Questions this way.
1] No he does not exist in these 4 dimensions.
2] He can understand the way we view time since he made us, but his view is not the same as ours.
3] I think to him past, present, and future are viewed as one because he exists outside our 4 dimensions.

These are debatable questions with no authoritive answers from mere humans. None the less I consider them worthy questions for Christians to entertain.

34

UN attack on Religion, JW Harlot Prophecy

by ah hahaha in

can someone give their thoughts on the un attacking religion and the jw teaching, revelation harlot.

i have a newspaper article with the headline "un quietly wages war on religion" i talked with some reps from the un in my country and they were talking about religion and how it had to go etc.

it is a un mandate apparently, just has to be implemented.

D wiltshire

Ah,

Check this out http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=13366&site=3&page=1

I don't have time to get you more info but if you type in "NGO" in the search section at the top of the page you should be able to dig up quite a bit yourself.